north west mental health & welfare rights group
MEETING – 24/11/2017
Scrutiny Room Manchester Town Hall
Present Helen Rogers – Stockport Council (Chair)
Nick Smith – Manchester City Council (Minutes)
Kate Anstee – Salford Council
Fiona Barker – Bolton At Home
Guy Biddles – GM Mental Health NHS Trust
Andrew Birtles – New Charter Housing
Sarah Byrne – Manchester MIND
Joanne Cahill – New Charter Housing
Amanda Cawdron – Oldham MBC
Elaine Craig – Postgraduate Student, Manchester Metropolitan University
Siobhan Donnachie – Manchester MIND
Yasmin Green – Salford Council
Kim Hayes – Research Associate, Manchester Metropolitan University
Karen Leatham – Creative Support
Jan McVittie - Manchester Early Intervention Service
Sharon McBride – Northwards Housing
Carol McLoughlin – Bolton CAB
Brian O’Mullane– Stockport Council
Bashir Zaman– Tameside MBC
Shivani Pal – Salford CA
Jacky Phillipson – Manchester Engagement Team
Katherine Riley - Manchester Engagement Team
Robin Sergeant– Manchester City Council
Samar Tasselli – Greater Manchester Law Centre
Philip Ward – Manchester City Council
Kathryn Williams – New Charter Housing
John Pearson – Stockport Solidarity Drop-in
Steve Ogden - Stockport Solidarity Drop-in
Joel Sloan – The Gaddum Centre
ApologiesAlison Germain – New Charter Housing
Lewis Currie – Southway Housing
- Six Speakers from the Department for Work and Pensions on Universal Credit – Full Service
The 6 DWP speakers in attendance introduced themselves, outlined their background & current remit:
Jenny Stanton: Partnership Manager for past 5 years covering Stockport & Oldham, has engaged with care leaver groups, MH teams & other customer rep groups in NW
Rachel Megram: Disability Employment Adviser (DEA) at Stockport & Didsbury JCs, in role for 20 years, role changed in Feb to upskill Work Coaches (WCs). Pilot at Brinnington Health Centre has seen many MH customers
Chris Hulse: Partnership manager for M/cr with DWP past 30 years, linking with MCC & other partners, much outreach & awareness raising with homeless agencies, is Prisoner/Offender Lead, works with Refugee Support Network, agreed care leavers protocol with local authority. UC is big learning curve everyone but assures that DWP very concerned as to how vulnerable customers are affected by it
Berny Hussey: 20 years as Work Coach, now working with Tameside Troubled Families, focus is small steps towards work, also worked in Oldham FSA
Jasmin Boylan: Brand new role as MH Community Partner, with DWP for 5 weeks, has own lived / personal experience of MH issues, part of Enhanced Support Offer (ESO) for groups such as those with MS, LD, young people etc, aiming to reduce stigma of MH. Under Dynamic Purchasing Scheme (DPS) new services are being bought for groups such as those with Asperger’s
Vicky Jeffers: Partnership Manager in role for 7-8 years, similar focus on vulnerability, leading on Armed Forces / Veterans, is conduit between such organisations & DWP. Chairs NW Prison Work Coaches quarterly meetings with National Probation Service re: employability & pathways into work for offenders. Tries to get solutions for organisations and can ‘kick issues upstairs’ to performance management team
All stressed that WCs & DEAs in local JCs are committed to supporting the vulnerable & anyone with complex needs to make the transition to UC as smooth as it can be, which includes MH training for DWP staff & digital upskilling for customers. Most Partnership Managers work with Troubled Families & those affected by Modern Slavery
25 Questions to DWP & their answers:
Q1: DWP guidance on ‘vulnerability’ is very brief, not fully in the public domain, can it be more open?
A: We should lobby through national corporate stakeholders forums for more visibility of guidance, but accepted that WCs should welcome a claimant being supported by family/professionals at interview (one instance cited of this being disallowed) & that there are conditionality easements where requirement to seek work can be temporarily switched off e.g. when fleeing DV. Every local office has a DEA who should be sought in the event of difficulty as DWP keen on person-focussed intervention & to know what level of support is needed
Q2: ESO is in limited precis form only, would be valuable to have this circulated
A: Complex Needs Plan/Policy isn’t in public domain as it is a living, working document but we are welcome to visit Job Centres and liaise with DWP staff rather than go down the complaints procedure route. New ‘Be Well’ project in M/cr is partnership between MCC, CCGs & Northwards Housing Association. A claimant can request a different WC if not getting on with allocated one. DEA happy to sit in on claimant interview with WC
Q3: What is process if claimant disagrees with their conditionality group, how can this be changed?
A: Clarification that answers given in the online claims process itself determines which of 6 Work Groups (WG) or ‘regimes’ a claimant is placed in, based on their own information e.g. Intensive Work Search (for those fully ready to get back to work), Light Touch (earning already but encouraged to seek more or better pay), Work Focused Interviews (for those expected to work in future but have current child care commitments). A WC can override the WG if claimant is clearly unwell, or can better tailor the claimant commitment to an individual’s needs. Conditionality is about the expectations within the allocated WG. From a disability viewpoint DWP don’t want to see the vulnerable fall foul of the system. DEAs have more time & availability now and are happy for us as advisers to have direct links with them. In M/cr assisted digital help is offered by CHAC / CAB and PBS by Shelter
Q4: If a sick note provided pre-dates the UC claim can ESA be claimed instead?
A: No it’ll be UC but that can be backdated for 1 month or longer in exceptional circumstances
Q5: Some UC Service Centre staff don’t seem to know what ‘new style ESA’ is?
A: Better links now between Oldham JC & Blackpool Service Centre, but issues arising from other Service Centres not being linked to Full-Service Area JCs have already been fed up the line
Q6: If a contribution based benefit is claimed thinking there is entitlement, but there proves not to be due to insufficient NI contributions, can benefit then be backdated beyond a month?
A: It is unusual to wait more than a month to get a decision on a contribution based benefit
Q7: What about permitted work under UC and does it trigger a Work Capability Assessment?
A: Still allowed to do this and it can be ongoing, but dialogue with WC is the key. WCA should only occur at a natural review point. In a new UC claim the WCA should be triggered after 29 days & is requested by Service Centre not the WC. Fit note should be put on the account, conditionality can be switched off and there is a named Case Manager at the Service Centre as well as a named WC at the JC.
Q8: On transfer from ESA to UC instances of claimants already placed in Support Group not receiving the LCWRA element in their UC payments and having to undergo a new WCA, as raised by NAWRA in its letter to David Gauke of Nov 1, 2017
A: No experience of this, but on moving from Live Service Area to FSA claimants shouldn’t need to provide evidence of housing costs again, as history is supposed to travel from LSA to FSA
Q9: Why can’t ‘implicit consent’ system with ESA & PIP be replicated in UC?
A: It is not possible to have this but action point for DWP is to see if UC can ring us back. Again this should be raised at stakeholder forums, to see if a system like TC689s with HMRC can be replicated in UC. The WC at HMP Styal had difficulty speaking to Child Benefit/Tax Credits on behalf of individual inmates. New Charter enjoy close relationship with JC at Ashton but not in a FSA yet. Partners providing PBS in Stockport are co-located with DWP in JC
Q10: What if a claimant is too unwell to attend the JC?
A: Visiting Team can see a claimant at home or in hospital as long as mental capacity is intact, but to make a new claim would first offer to do so by phone if can’t access a PC, and if a visit was still needed the VO would still be ringing with the claimant to make the claim, not done on a PC, but verification of ID can be done at that visit
Q11: What if no ID?
A: A biographical interview can be done with JC and secondary ID to passport or driving licence can be accepted such as a utility bill. If biometrical ID can’t be provided, then 5 random questions can be generated or ID can be accepted from a 3rd party such as GP or solicitor.
Q12: If can’t access journal & have no cash can passwords be reset by Partnership Managers?
A: Password reset should be a quick process
Q13: What if appointeeship needs to be cancelled?
A: A HV would be set up as a new BF66 must be done and new appointee’s bank details gathered. Death of an appointee hasn’t yet happened: would need a family member or public body to replace former appointee
Q14: What about corporate appointeeships?
A: There is no unique payment ref number such as NI No shown with payments into an account but could identify according to date of month it is paid as this is always the same. Payment details can be viewed on the online account
Q15: Can a couple making a joint claim to UC use the same e-mail address?
A: No. Front of house JC staff can assist in creating an e-mail address, at Oldham there are 12 staff and 14 PCs on the ground floor of the JC so help is where it is needed. Libraries, food banks and many housing associations have PC hubs to access but agree that maintaining a journal can be problematic. Single Point of Contact (SPOC) at Oldham to engage directly on individual cases while Oldham Welfare Rights are looking to have a more visible presence in the JC. (Mention made at this point of Social Prescriber Pilot in certain areas, soon to be more widespread which GPs can refer people into)
Q16: What about disclosing MH issues at JC?
A: Can request interview in private room to maintain confidentiality, subject to availability
Q17: What about claiming now & getting no payment pre-Xmas?
A: Food banks are very good & many also issue fuel vouchers. JC staff are aware of Advance Payments, Benefit Transfer Advances & Local Welfare Provision scheme
Q18: What about Council Tax Support missed claims?
A: Much is being done to promote this and free school meals
Q19: If a claimant only has a Post Office card account will their claim be closed within 7 days?
A: It shouldn’t be although these accounts are being phased out. (In Oldham Barclays are good at offering basic bank accounts)
Q20: Can non-British citizen claim UC in a FSA?
A: Yes, subject to satisfying the HRT
Q21: In a FSA will legacy benefit claimants only go on to UC when a change of circumstances happens?
A: Yes, but migration is to follow
Q22: How does UC treat those on zero hours contracts?
A: Long term it is not ideal but UC is more concerned with earnings than hours
Q23: Issues with small companies not updating Real Time Information to HMRC leading to disputed earnings
A: Wage slips can be scanned to journal or taken in person to JC
Q24: Date for UC Call centre to become Freephone?
A: Not sure, action point for DWP is to check on this
Q25: Are WCA decisions issued in paper form in FSAs?
A: Think so, but action point is to find out
- Minutes of last meeting:
Accepted
- Future meetings:
To occur every 2 months, next two are Jan 29 (pm) and March 23 (am) both in M/cr THX, Level 4
- Future speakers:
Kim from MMU can talk about MH online forums at Jan meeting then possibly Psychology / CBT practitioners or someone from IAPT depending on what would be useful to hear (suggestions to Helen by e-mail), also speaker on Social Prescribing which has been going on at Macclesfield for the past 2 years at a Disability Information Bureau
AOB:
- 1 bed LHA rate for under 35s depends on SDP eligibility criteria being met
- PIP review form issued where appeal pending on a decision which only awarded PIP for 6 months, so must also appeal if same decision on renewal. Robin suggests this could be a public law issue if unreasonable to make such a short award when there is strong evidence which should indicate otherwise
- Talk of some organisations charging to fill in PIP forms or do MRs while guides on completing PIP claims are available online at a cost
- Solidarity at Stockport happy to help anyone complete an ESA50 or PIP form, not restricted to Stockport residents
- All welcome to attend Strategic Casework Group meeting at Manchester on 6 Dec (am) ; flier distributed
- Next Meeting:Friday 26/01/20181pm-4pm, Manchester Town Hall.
Afternoon meeting due to availability of rooms