Minutes of the 11th Meeting of
Central and Western District Council
Date / : 10 October 2013 (Thursday)Time / : 2:30 pm
Venue / : Conference Room, 14/F, Harbour Building,
: 38 Pier Road, Central, Hong Kong
Present:
Chairman
Mr YIP Wing-shing, BBS, MH, JP*
Vice-chairman
Mr CHAN Hok-fung*
Members
Mr CHAN Chit-kwai, BBS, JP*Mr CHAN Choi-hi*
Mr CHAN Ho-lim, Joseph*
Ms CHENG Lai-king / (2:48 pm - end of the meeting)
Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwan / (2:40 pm - end of the meeting)
Mr CHEUNG Yick-hung, Jackie / (2:37 pm - 4:45 pm)
Mr HUI Chi-fung / (2:57 pm - 7:55 pm)
Mr IP Kwok-him, GBS, JP / (3:18 pm - 4:30 pm and 7:55 pm - end of the meeting)
Mr KAM Nai-wai, MH / (2:35 pm - 4:45 pm)
Dr Malcolm LAM / (2:35 pm - 4:00 pm)
Mr LEE Chi-hang, Sidney / (2:35 pm - 4:00 pm and 5:20 pm - 6:14 pm)
Mr MAN Chi-wah, MH*
Mr NG Siu-keung, Thomas, MH, JP / (2:35 pm - 8:08 pm)
Miss SIU Ka-yi / (2:35 pm - 6:45 pm)
Mr WONG Kin-shing*
Note: / * / Members who attended the whole meeting
( ) / the time of attendance
Guests
Item 2
Mr Duncan PESCOD, JP / Permanent Secretary for Transport & Housing (Housing)Mr TANG Chi-leung, Vincent / Principal Assistant Secretary(Housing)
Item 3
Mr LAU Ka-keung, Peter, JP / Director of HighwaysMr CHEUNG Chi-hoi / Regional Highway Engineer/Urban, Highways Department
Mr WONG Chun-hung / Senior Distract Engineer/HNW, Highways Department
Item 4
Mr NIP Tak-kuen, Patrick, JP / Director (Special Duties), Chief Secretary for Administration’s OfficeMiss CHOW Tsz-ting, Sandy / Administrative Officer(Policy & Project Co-ordination Unit), Chief Secretary for Administration’s Office
Item 7(i)
Mr LEUNG Ka-wah / Senior Coordination Engineer, MTR Corporation LimitedMiss WU Mei-fung / Project Communications Manager, MTR Corporation Limited
Mr NG Chi-wai / Architect I, MTR Corporation Limited
Mr LI Sze-ming / Acting Chief Engineer/Railway Development 2-1, Railway Development Office,Highways Department
Mr CHAN Chin-wing / Senior Engineer/Priority Railway 3, Transport Department
Mr WONG Tat-ming, Richard / Chief Leisure Manager(Hong Kong West), Leisure and Cultural Services Department
Item 7(ii)
Mr Michael MA / Director, Planning & Design, Urban Renewal AuthorityMr AU Chun-ho / Assistant General Manager, Planning & Design, Urban Renewal Authority
Mr YAU Chung-hok / Director, Corporate Communications, Urban Renewal Authority
Ms PANG Alice / ChiefAssistant Secretary (Works) 2, Development Bureau
Miss LI Lai-kwan, Queenie / Assistant Secretary (Heritage Conservation) 3, Development Bureau
Mr CHEUNG Wa-on, Derek / Assistant Secretary (Planning)1, Development Bureau
Mr YU Wai-shing, Frederick / Assistant Secretary (Harbour)Special Duties, Development Bureau
Item 9
Miss LI Lai-kwan, Queenie / Assistant Secretary (Heritage Conservation) 3, Development BureauMiss TSANG Yuk-chi, Fiona / Acting Curator(Historical Buildings)1, Antiquities and Monuments Office, Leisure and Cultural Services Department
Mr TAM Chung-on, Alan / Senior Engineer/Southern & Peak, Transport Department
Miss YIU Yuk, Isabel / Senior Town Planner/Hong Kong 1, Planning Department
Dr YIP Kwok-leung, Joseph / Country Parks Officer (Hong Kong), Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department
Mr CHOW Siu-hung, William / Nature Conservation Officer (Hong Kong), Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department
Mr SAN Tsz-kin, Sunny / Acting Superintendent and Assistant DistrictCommander (Operations 2)(Central District), Hong Kong Police Force
Mr LAW See-hon, Sean / Senior Environmental Protection Officer(Regional South)1, Environmental Protection Department
Item 10
Mr LEUNG Ka-wah / Senior Coordination Engineer, MTR Corporation LimitedMs WU Mei-fung / Project Communications Manager, MTR Corporation Limited
Mr Wong Wai-ming / Operation Manager – Island Line and Tseung Kwan O Line,
MTR CorporationLimited
Mr KAN Kai-yan / Deputy District Commander (Western), Hong Kong Police Force
Mr LAW Shu-pui / Police Community Relations Officer (Western District), Hong Kong Police Force
Item 11
Prof Anthony YEH / Head and Chair Professor, Department of Urban Planning & Design,the University of Hong KongMs Christina LO / Lecturer,Department of Urban Planning & Design, the University of Hong Kong
Dr Kenneth TANG / Teaching Instructor, Department of Urban Planning & Design, the University of Hong Kong
Mrs KANG LEUNG Wing-yee, Winnie / Principle Assistant Secretary (Harbour), Development Bureau
Mr LAM Chi-ming, Kempis / Senior Estate Surveyor/Central (District Lands Office, Hong Kong West andSouth), Lands Department
Miss LEE Kit-tak, Jessica / Town Planner/Hong Kong 7,Planning Department
Ms KO Wan-chi, Wendy / Senior Agricultural Officer (Planning & Livestock Farm Licensing),Agriculture, Fisheries and Conservation Department
Mr CHAN Ming-kwong / General Manager/Services, Marine Department
In attendance :
Mr KAN Kai-yan / Deputy District Commander (Western), Hong Kong Police ForceMr LAW Shu-pui / Police Community Relations Officer (Western District),Hong Kong Police Force
Mr MAK Chi-biu / Chief Engineer/Hong Kong(1), Civil Engineering and Development Department
Mr YIP Ming-bor / District Environmental Hygiene Superintendent(Central/Western), Food and Environmental Hygiene Department
Mr WONG Tat-ming, Richard / Chief Leisure Manager(Hong Kong West), Leisure and Cultural Services Department
Mr CHAN Nap-sang, Nelson / Chief Transportation Officer/Hong Kong, Transport Department
Miss CHOW Ho-kiu, Cheryl, JP / District Officer (Central & Western)
Mr CHAN Yun-man, Winston / Assistant District Officer (Central & Western)
Ms YEUNG Lai-ching, Regent / Senior Executive Officer (District Management), Central and Western District Office
Mr CHAN Shing-fung / Executive Officer I (District Council), Central and Western District Office
Secretary
Ms WONG Ming-wai / Senior Executive Officer (District Council), Central and Western District Office
Absent with apologies
Miss LO Yee-hang
Welcome Remarks
The Chairman welcomed the representatives of government departments, Members and Mr KAN Kai-yan, Deputy District Commander (Western) of the Hong Kong Police Force (HKPF), who was present for the first time, to the 11th meeting of the Central and Western District Council (C&WDC). The Chairman reported thathe had received a notice of absence from Miss LO Yee-hang who was on business trip.
Item 1︰Adoption of the Agenda
(2:30 pm.)
2.There being no comments from Members on the revised agenda, the Chairman declared that the agenda of the meeting was adopted.
Discussion Items
Item 2 : / Briefing on the Long Term Housing Strategy Consultation Document(C&WDC Paper No. 110/2013)
(2:31 pm. - 3:25 pm.)
- The Chairman welcomedthe Permanent Secretary for Transport & Housing (Housing) and his colleagues to the meeting.
- Mr Duncan PESCOD, Permanent Secretary for Transport & Housing (Housing), outlined the background, discussion topics, public consultation and follow-up actions of the “Long Term Housing Strategy: Building Consensus, Building Homes” Consultation Document (Consultation Document) of theLong Term Housing Strategy Steering Committee (Steering Committee).
- The Chairman invited Members to express their views. The main points of theircomments were as follows：
(a)Mr WONG Kin-shing held that the formulation of anylong-term housing strategy muststart from the formulation of population policy;otherwisethe efforts would be futile. Taking the One-way Permit quota of 150 places per day for mainlanders to settle in Hong Kong as an example, the number of such new immigrants in the past 16 years had exceeded 800,000; which was more than twice the net number of birthinHong Kong. He inquired how the Government would handle the situation and whether the population strategy would be reviewed in order to develop realistic housing strategy. He also pointed out that the Consultation Document shouldmake clear if the Government would re-consider our population policy.
(b)Mr Thomas NG said that in drawing up the long-term housing strategy, the government departments shouldmake sure that traffic development etc. must fall in line with population distribution. They must also take into account the capability of various districts to build more houses for the increased population. He emphasised that the authorities should not sacrifice public space toincrease housing supply.
(c)Dr Malcolm LAMbelieved that the authorities were relatively conservative in setting thetotal housing supply target at 470 000 units for the next ten years. As the housing demand was about 50 000 to 60 000 units every year, he worried if the tentative target was sufficient to satisfy the demand. He also held the opinion that the document should give an account of the distribution of proposed public and private residential units in various districts throughout Hong Kong, Kowloon and the New Territories, and hoped that the Government could provide more information for discussion.
(d)Mr Joseph CHANraised three points. Firstly, the Government should choose sites with prudence while increasing housing supply,and sitting-out areas and country park sites should not be consideredas building sites as far as possible. Secondly, besides focusing on increasing housing supply, the Government should also give due consideration to the overall town planning, infrastructural provisions and supportingtransport facilities of Hong Kong. Thirdly, in addition to the choice of building sites and the overall planning, the Government should also consider the issue of labour force required for the building works. He hoped that the Government could ensure the adequacy of labour supply through inter-departmental coordination.
(e)Mr MAN Chi-wah raised two points. Firstly, as the provision of 470000 residential units in the coming ten years was a conservative target, therefore a timeframe must be in place to enable revision according to circumstances. Secondly, despite the difficulties in finding land for housing construction, if the chosen site was located in the urban area, the Government should solve the problem ofsupportingtransport facilities before any development was carried out. In the meantime, although it was not easy to change the land use of country park sites, there were still landavailable in the rural areas; for instance, consideration couldbe given to re-use the land that had been utilisedfor low-density small house developments and relax the plot ratio to meet part of the housing demand.
(f)Mr Sidney LEE queried if the housing supply target of 470 000 units would be sufficient to satisfy the demand in the coming ten years. He believed that the more the number of residential units supplied; the more stablethe property price would become. In view of this, the Government should raise the housing targetsince470000 units lagged far behind the growthof population and housing demand. Secondly, he held thatas the demand for public housing was great,he proposed to adjust the ratio of public and private housing for the new housing units built. For example, to increase the supply of public housing through the Home Ownership Scheme (HOS)etc. to help stabilise or suppress the private property prices. He hoped that the Government would consider increasing the supply of HOS units and reviewing the HOS policy. For instance, the Government should no longer takethe market price of private properties as reference when pricingtheHOS units so that the returns of HOS flat owners would not be affected when they sold their properties. He hoped that their desire toswitch to private housing might bedampened by this.
(g)Mr CHAN Choi-hi believed that the authorities, in formulating the long-term housing strategy, would take an innovative approach toproject the population figure and the supply target of 470000units was not hard and fast. He heldthat this was merely the Government’s tentative target which might be revised as required. He requested the authorities to make review and announce the progresson a yearly basis. Regarding subdivided units (SDUs), he pointed out that the situation in the Western District was more critical and he supported the implementation of regulation measures toeliminate the potential fire and collapse hazards. However, he worried that the SDUresidents might have to pay higher rents as a result of such measuresand some of them might even become homeless. He suggestedthat the authorities should consider proposals that could help solvethe problem, such as the provision of quality SDUs or rock caverns for residential purpose.
(h)Mr CHAN Chit-kwai supported this scheme of reviewing the housing issue. He held that the short supply of residential units was attributed to the Government’s policy in the past decade. To meet the needs of the general public, housing supply must increase. He proposed to boost the supply of public housing to assist the grassroots and to relax the eligibility for the application of public housing so as to benefit the working poor. He also supported the identificationof land in North East New Territories for housing development, and appealed to districts where there wasavailable land to support this measure. As the increase of housing units involved the provision of supporting transport and infrastructural facilities, the Government must first work out a comprehensive plan instead of taking actionhastily.
(i)Mr KAM Nai-waiqueried about the discrepancy between the current Government proposal to provide an average of 47 000 units every year in the coming ten years and the previous target of building 85 000 units each year. He called into questionthe verity of such projection. He also inquired about the way of identifying land for housing construction and criticised the Government for grabbing land blindly for housing development. He tookthe earlier proposal of building 3 000 units in the Western District as an example, pointing out thatpeople who had spent their life savings to buy homesthere might suffer great loss becausetheconstruction of such a large number of flats would increase the population density of the district, aggravate the “wall effect”, causetraffic congestionand strain community facilities. He objected to the conversion of land use of country park sites for housing development, but supported the use of idle military sites. He worried that to lower the ratio of private housing to 40% of the new housing production would trigger further surge in private property prices and inquired how the authorities would keep the property price from soaring while lowering the ratio of private housing.
(j)The Vice-chairman said that the Consultation Document demonstrated the Government’s willingness to take its first step in solving this deep-seated problem. He supported the proposals ofmaking “public housing accounting for a higher proportion of the new housing production” andrevising the public and private housing ratio to 60:40 so that more people in need could enjoy better living conditions. He reminded the authorities thatproblems such as inadequatejob opportunities and community facilities should be avoided when they undertook housing development. He took Tin Shui Wai, a district with adequate housing supply, as an example and pointed out that residents could not get employment in that district as job opportunities there were scant. They had to shoulder hefty traffic expense for travelling to workplaces in other districts. In fact,it was for the sake of easy employment that people stomachedthe high rent of SDUs in urban areas, thus making the SDU problem more difficult to solve. He suggested that the long-term housing strategy should cover the development of supporting facilities as in urban areas so that people would find it easier to getemployment in the district where they live, thus alleviating their financial burden of traffic and living expenses. He also suggested that the concessions offered by public housing estates in urban areas shouldbe different from that of rural ones. For instance, instead of planning to build 3 000 units in densely populated Kennedy Town, the authorities should develop public housing units in rural areaswith greater appealssuch as larger in size, lower in rent, and more local employmentopportunities. This would contribute to more balanced development of these towns.
(k)Mr CHEUNG Kwok-kwandeclared that he was a member of the Steering Committee. He said that the public had raised many questions about the Consultation Document, such as whether the development of old districts would strain the local cultural and recreational facilities; whetherit was too conservative to set the target of building 47 000 units every year; whetherthe annual provision of over 20 000 private residential flats was sufficient, etc. He hoped that the authorities would make good use of this consultation to help people understand the intertwiningrelationship among various issues. For instance, we needed sites for building houses and if reclamation was banned,there would be no land for housing development. He hoped that with comprehensive understanding of the circumstances, the public could make their own choice.
(l)Mr HUI Chi-fung said that his opinions were generally the same as other Members, but pointed out that residents of the Central and Western (C&W) District wereconcerned about the issue of changing land use of country park sitesfor residential purpose, which was not covered by the Consultation Document. He opposed this proposal because country parks,apart from allowing people to get in touch with the nature,also borepreservation significance. Changing the land use of country park sitesrepresented further reduction of green areas in Hong Kong. He held the opinion that land of private clubs, factory sites and vacant industrial/agricultural land could be converted for residential purpose. He reiterated that the sites of country parks should not be converted to residential purpose.