Sept 09 doc.: IEEE 802.11-09/1228r0

IEEE P802.11
Wireless LANs

Minutes of JTC1 ad hoc in Atlanta in November 2009
Date: 2009-11-10
Author(s):
Name / Affiliation / email
Peter Yee / NSA/IAD /

Minutes of JTC1 Ad Hoc Meeting Tuesday, 17 Nov 09, PM1

  1. Agenda document = 11-09/1221r0
  2. Attendance - ~17
  3. Chair – Andrew Myles
  4. Agenda – Motion to approve by Ian Sherlock and seconded by Dorothy Stanley was passed unanimously
  5. Motion to approve Minutes from September JTC1 ad hoc meeting in Hawaii by Garth Hillman and seconded by Bruce Kramer was passed unanimously
  6. Goals of JTC1 ad hoc committee were reviewed by Chair and listed on agenda slides 13 and 14
  7. WAPI is the main JTC1/SC6 item of interest to 802.11.
  8. Address the status of the PSDO
  9. Listing of ISO/IEC versions of IEEE 802.11 standards given:
  10. ISO/IEC does not have 802.11 e/j/k/n/r/w
  11. ISO/IEC does not sell 802.11-2007, only 2003
  12. New PSDO
  13. New PSDO will have IEEE as a peer SDO, submitting documents directly ISO/IEC rather than through the UK NB.
  14. 802.15.4 will likely use the new PSDO, which is applicable to all JTC1 SC’s.
  15. Letter to JTC1/SC6 regarding 802.11mb and other amendments
  16. TGmb rollup will result in a new version of 802.11
  17. Probably a good replacement for existing ISO/IEC 8802-11
  18. Letter could alert SC6 NBs of other amendments not covered by TGmb to give them chance to comment
  19. A potential motion to have 802 send a letter to SC6 regarding the status of TGmb and the other amendments was discussed. No vote was taken as the letter has not yet been drafted. Some review of the proper procedure will be undertaken by the Chair to determine the correct method for submitting the letter. The Chair will generate a draft letter to be reviewed by the AHC and the 802 EC.
  20. Status of WAPI was reviewed
  21. WAPI is being refined to work with 802.11n and a Chinese QoS standard. These refinements are only available to BWIPS members at the current time.
  22. WAPI does not currently work with 802.11 e/n/r/w
  23. WAPI is being introduced to IETF
  24. Nothing happened at last week’s IETF meeting in Hiroshima – CAPWAP WG did not meet.
  25. A binding identifier had been requested for WAPI in July, but it was determined that a different type of lower-level identifier is needed. Numbers for that will be allocated at some point.
  26. SC6 agreed that the Chinese NB can submit WAPI as an independent security mechanism for ISO/IEC 8802-11 standards.
  27. The Chinese NB has modified WAPI to alleviate copyright concerns raised by IEEE Staff. Staff has not yet responded with their views on the modifications.
  28. The Chinese NB submitted WAPI to SC6 on October 29, 2009 as a New Project (similar to an IEEE TG). The ballot for starting the NP runs for 3 months.
  29. The NP is expected to operate for 36 months (default period) and will produce an alternative to what are essentially the 802.11i mechanisms.
  30. The NP is justified based on security flaws in 802.11.
  31. The security flaws boil down to use of WEP or WPA-TKIP.
  32. WPA2 is ignored.
  33. The evidence of security flaws provided is wrong or misinterpreted.
  34. A draft letter pointing out the flawed basis for the WAPI NP has been drafted. The desire is that the letter be transmitted from the 802.11 WG.
  35. Interested parties are invited to help edit the letter following the close of this session.
  36. To affect the ballot process, this letter needs to be approved by the 802 EC at this meeting.
  37. Point raised that WAPI creates a murky status for the LOA’s that have been offered for implementation of IEEE 802.11 standards.
  38. JT1/SC6 next meets in Barcelona 18-22 January 2010
  39. Volunteers from IEEE 802.11 are solicited to attend that meeting
  40. An IEEE liaison would probably only need to observe
  41. No one appears willing to do so as it conflicts with the IEEE wireless interim in Los Angeles
  42. Mike Kipness will look into whether there are others who can represent our interests at the meeting.
  43. If the NP is approved, JTC1 AHC will probably want to consider a technical review of WAPI.
  44. Questions raised are:
  45. Who should participate?
  46. To whom is the review sent?
  47. What’s the timing on the review?
  48. Different levels of expertise might be brought to bear:
  49. Cryptographers
  50. Protocol specialists
  51. Next steps:
  52. Return on Thursday to review final drafts of both letters

The meeting was recessed at 2:47 p.m.

Minutes of JTC1 Ad Hoc Meeting Thursday, 19 Nov 09, AM2

  1. Attendance - ~16
  2. Chair – Andrew Myles

3.  Activities for this session

a.  Review letter to SC6 regarding use of the PSDO

b.  Review letter to SC6 regarding WAPI

4.  Review and improvement of letter to SC6 Secretariat regarding use of PSDO (11-09/1273r1)

a.  Seven amendments and a rollup (802.11-2007) have been created since 8802-11:2005 was ratified in ISO/IEC.

b.  Eight more amendments are being worked on as well.

c.  Some of these amendments/rollup to be submitted to ISO/IEC.

d.  Motion to request the letter be sent SC6 approved by the AHC: 12/0/0. Moved Dan Harkins; seconded Jim Raab. Motion passes.

5.  Review and improvement of letter to SC6 Secretariat and others within SC6 regarding WAPI NP (11-09/1254r0)

a.  Suggests WAPI work should be done in IEEE 802.11

b.  Claims of IEEE 802.11 insecurity as justification for the WAPI NP are incorrect:

i.  Based on use of WEP or WPA-TKIP

ii. Issues are already covered by CCM or WPA2

c.  Motion to request the letter be sent to SC6 approved by the AHC: 11/0/0. Moved David Hunter; seconded Jerry Thrasher. Motion passes.

6.  SC6 participation at January meeting in Barcelona

a.  Volunteers to participate solicited.

b.  No volunteers to date

7.  Ad hoc technical review of WAPI specification

a.  Perhaps needed if WAPI approved at end of January 2010

Meeting adjourned at 12:21 p.m.

Submission page 3 Peter Yee, NSA/IAD