HEAVY DUTY, COMMERCIAL TRANSPORT
& DIESEL ENGINE ARTICULATION MEETING
MAY 1 AND 2, 2006
COLLEGE OF THE ROCKIES
Attendance:
Lorn Hamel(CNC)Glen Roberts(NIC),Gerry Warne, Bob Glover,(Northern Lights College), Ron Fletcher(VCC), Norm Dishkin and Ray Fischer (Comosun College); Al Walker and Andy Gullen(Andy Gullen May 1st only)(Selkirk College); Lloyd Babcock, Murray Tamas and Dave Wharf (Thompson Rivers University);Paul Mottershead and Fred MacDonald (Malasina University-College); Joe Kovacs (University College of the Fraser Valley); Doug Haycock (Northern Lights College); Paul Mottershead and Fred MacDonald (Malasina University-College)Terry Lockhart (Okanagan College), Gord Schofield (VCC), Todd McCanace and Bill Crouch, College of the Rockies .
CHAIR: DaveWharf
GUESTS: - Mike Jary & Lori Steele
Canadian Association of Fleet Supervisors
- Howard Giesbrecht
Detroit Diesel
Agenda:
Day 1 – Monday, May 1, 2006
Morning session,
Welcome and Introductions
- Approval of the Agenda
- Approval of the 2005 Minutes
- Business arising from the minutes
- Agenda Additions
- Report from System Liaison person – Fred MacDonald
- Election of new personnel: Chair, booklist, curriculum improvement etc.
Break for Lunch
Afternoon session
- 2:00 pm – Telephone conference – Sam Loo – update on Aircare/Emissions testing and effects on our Industries
- HD and CT Curriculum updates/timeframes etc.
- Entry Level Timeframes
Day 2 – Tuesday, May 2, 2006
Morning session
- Report from ITA rep Lindsay Langill
- Question period
- Booklists
- Location of next meeting
- Presentation from Mike Jary and Lori Steele - Canadian Association of Fleet Supervisors
Break for Lunch
Afternoon session
- Detroit Diesel upgrading session on new diesels
MINUTES
MONDAY, MAY 1, 2006
Welcome and Introductions.
DaveWharf gave the opening welcome.
Welcome to College of the Rockies from President, Nick Rubige, and Dean of Trades, Ron McCrae.
1.Additions and approval of the Agenda
- Motion to accept the 2006 Agenda was moved by Glen Roberts - seconded by Murray Tamas.
- Passed unanimously.
2.Approval of the 2005 Minutes
- Motion to accept 2005 minutes was moved by Joe Kovacs
- seconded by Terry Lockart.
- Passed unanimously.
3.Business arising from the minutes.
- Discussion of ACE IT program from 2005 Minutes as to whether it is being used and problems arising from the course.
-Discussion in regards to the High Schools using the program andthat they arecompleting Level 1 training
- Discussion of younger students resulting from ACE and theadvantages/disadvantages and legal ramifications of having younger students.- Determined that Age doesn’t seem to be an issue at this time.
-UTA adopted 2003 curriculum.
4.Report from System Liaison person – Fred McDonald
-Fred – spoke in regards to exams. Level exams etc. and that they have been completed.
-Discussion of ELT review and formation of Commercial Transport Committee
-ELT – discussion of combined programs - 20% or 30 plus 6 weeks for a single program. ITA speaking of budgets as opposed to program.
-discussed howthis will bereflected in training programs.
-Gord Schofeild spoke in regards to the 20 week programs and how the Industry did make a push for shorter programs. Private industries are coming in with shorter programs and IT will be looking at why our courses are longer and that the private industries can teach with shorter programs and the fact that it is more attractive to potential students.
-Discussion of disadvantages of shorter programs and how funding will be decreased accordingly. The census was thatyou can’t shorten the program.
-Discussion in regards to Training Program - The whole training program is not settled.
-Trades Training Consortium of British Columbia Funding discussed. Allocation of funding discussed based on 2005 – 2006 Funding Levels.
-Discussion of funding available for all trades and the purchase of new capital equipment only.
-ITO - Discussion in regards to our programadvisory committee and that the HD Committee have had several meetings and took theproposal to ITA.
-AutoSector group had a meeting in regards to joining together and forming a new committee for Heavy Duty and Commercial Transport.
-Discussion in regards to keeping HD away from all other trades. – noted that this has been attempted before but it didn’t work. Having HD separate from other trades is a very big responsibility no one is wanting to take on the responsibility
-Discussed that we needan inventory and system analysis to increase trades training in the province.
-Discussed that all the Colleges purchase multiple larger items together from large distributors (ie CAT/Cummins) in order to receive discounts and the pros and cons of why it may be a problem to purchase this way. Other Trades within the Colleges may argue that they need to up-date their equipment and would therefore need the funds allocated to the HD/Trades which may differ within the different Colleges.
-Discussed that everyone needs to put emphasis on the capital needs and getting these request to respective Deans and suggestions that there is a need to enlighten our Deans as to the cost of equipment - One suggestion was to take/inviteDeans/management to different events to familiarize them with equipment and costs.
-Discussion of combining ITO groupwith automotive. Fred MacDonald made a few calls in regards to ITO and where it is going. AutoSector Group is deciding whether they will be offering a 40 week entry level . It looks favorable that the Auto Sector Group will combine with HDM and present it to ITO.
-Discussion as to enrolment both apprentice and entry level - determined that most are full (50 – 100% ) with the majority being 100%full.
Break
-Discussionof wait lists and how to regulate. ITAC tried to control but it wasn’t accepted. A new soft-wear program is being developed and if everyone uses it, it could prevent overbooking and assist in training plans.
-Discussion that Heavy Duty doesn’t get enough support on its own and that is why they are combined with Automotive. There is however, representation for HD. The government may see the need to separate automotive from HD.
5.Election of New Personnel:
Chair, Booklist, Curriculum Improvement
Dave - Open floor for nominations for Chairperson and Booklists and changes to curriculum.
-Nominations for Chairperson
-Dave nominate Lloyd Babcock
-Seconded by Terry Lockhart.
-Unanimous
New Chairperson – Lloyd Babcock
-Nominations for Booklists for Trades HD/ CT
-Bob nominatedTerry Lockhart
-Lloyd seconded
-Accepted by Terry
-Discussion of e-mail name and address changes. Needs to be kept up-to- date New name and address list circulated and completed as follows:
First Name / Last Name / Org. Name / E-mail Address / City / Prov. / Work Phone / Fax No.Gord / Schofield / VCC /
1155 East Bradway / Vancouver / BC / 604-871-7390 / 604-871-7100
Terry / Lockhart / OkanaganCollege /
1000 KLD Rd.Kelowna, V1V 4X8 / Kelowna / BC / 250-862-5445 / 250-862-5469
Al / Walker / Selkirk / / Nelson / BC / 250-354-3240 / 250-352-3180
Todd / McCance / COTR / / Cranbrook / BC / 250-489-2751
(Ext 634) / 250-489-8246
Ray / Fischer / Camoson / / Victoria / BC / 250-370-3786 / 250-370-4428
Norm / Dishkin / Camoson / / Victoria / BC / 250-370-3793 / 250-370-4428
Doug / Maycock / N.L.C. / / Ft.St. John / BC / 250-785-6981
(Ext. 2076) / 250-787-6229
Glen / Roberts / N.I.C. / / Campbell River / BC / 250-923-9796 / 250-830-0816
Ron / Fletcher / V.C.C. /
1155 East Broadway / Vancouver / BC / 604-871-7392 / 604-871-7100
Joe / Kovacs / UCFV / / Abbotsford / BC / 604-504-7441 / 604-853-7469
Lorne / Hamel / C.N.C. / / Prince George / BC / 250-562-2131
(Local 638) / 250-561-5844
Paul / Mottershead / Malaspina / / Nanaimo / BC / 250-740-6123 / 250-740-6456
Bob / Glover / BCIT / / Vancouver / BC / 604-451-6742 / 604-431-5497
Gerry / Warne / BCIT / / Vancouver / BC / 604-451-6822 / 604-431-5497
Andy / Gullen / Selkirk / / Nelson / BC / 250-352-6601
ext. (242) / 250-352-3180
Murray / Tamas / TRU / / Kamloops / BC / 250-573-2864 / 250-828-5129
Lloyd / Babcock / TRU / / Kamloops / BC / 250-828-5469 / 250-371-5911
Fred / MacDonald / MUC / / Nanaimo / BC / 250-710-6111
Dave / Wharf / TRU / / Kamloops / BC / 250-828-5468 / 250-371-5911
-Discussion of Networking and making a website. We want to make a Webpage to be able to add name list to Web page . Also convenient for any advertising and requesting parts and/or equipment from other institutions if they have available.
-HD CT CURRICULUM – updates time frames etc.
Copies of the HD CT curriculum can be obtained from the Website. ( revised March 2003) – All Training institutes should have a copy .
-Discussion that the Curriculum should be updated. Ultimate break systems are in the Curriculum 3 times. Discussion on how Curriculum should reflect what is being taught and the time-frame. It was agreed that changes need to be made. NOA has been changed and the exams follow the NOA and we need to inform ITA that the curriculum needs to be changed to follow exams.
Discussion of different items that need to be updated. ie time-frames. Perhaps Entry level instructions should be discussing the time frames.
-Discussion that a need to determine what is the best way to break up 36 weeks and what you can adjust from both programs to fit into time frame which is to include the work experience time. It was suggested and agreed that everyone should break into groups and re-draft an out line that can be presented to IT.
- Broke into groups to determine proposed % and time period and combining same with HD and CT courses.
Break for Lunch
-Continuation of determination of proposed percentage and time period and the combing with HD and CT courses.
6.Telephone Conference
-Telephone conference with Sam Loo in regards to Aircare/Emissions testing and the effect on our Industries.
-Discussion in regards to latest changes in omissions and Light Duty Air Care Program
-Sam has been in discussion with independent consultants from California.
-Discussed the 5 year exemption starting 2007 and they also suggested there could be a reduction infees. The board accepted the proposal instead of a 5 year exemption it should be 7 years. The fees should be capped The planning committee said that they have only approved the 5 year. 2001 5 year program to 2011 they will do a review in2009 if there will be another level .
-Technicians Need to know the difference between OBDQ OBD1 Need to get a handle on what the training institutes will be offering.
Heavy Duty
-There have been actual inspections in the lower mainland.
Two teams. The inspections that they do are on an advisory. Not targeting the long hall but focusing on short hall - (dump trucks and containers) - There has been a 6% fail rate
-Commercial vehicle inspections are conducting the Aircare/Emissions together with their safety inspections.
-Discussion of different funding on Heavy Duty and Aircare.
-Discussion in regards to the Ministry of Transportation in regards to legislation and if they apply to other jurisdiction as well as Aircare throughout the whole Province. There is a concerned about funding for different programs.
-Discussion in regards to off-road vehicles. Sam advised that right now
they are dealing with on-road. Off road falls under the different jurisdictions.
Telephone consultation completed.
Break
7.HD and CT Curriculum updates/timeframes – Exams – Entry Level Time Frames
-Discussion in regards to changes and the CT HD Curriculum outlines – Changes Discussed.
-Discussion in dropping air conditioning and refrigeration for entry level. The balance broken down to cover the amount of hours required to combine the two courses.
-Discussion that we build an in-house exam based on heavy duty commercial outline. The exam would need to be brought to meetings every year for additions/deletions and discussions. The combined test for in-house teachingshould not have any affect on IT.
-Discussion and Recommendation to remove AC out of CT entry level .
-Discussionof building a new course outline to accommodate new curriculum.
-Discussion of whether or not IT would be o.k. with new outline and the fact that refrigeration and airconditioning are taken out of entry level.
-Discussion on dropping Industrial First Aid. Most have dropped already.Disagreement by some that Industrial First Aid should not be dropped. Although HD instructors are not trained in this field it was suggested that it should be taught by a qualified instructor and should not be taken out of the Outline.
MOTION - Norm Dishkin made a motion Line A4 remainin the Course Outline. Motion passed unanimously
MOTION - Terry Lockheart made a motion to remove refrigeration fromCourse Outline.
Motion Seconded by Andy Gullin..
Motioned passed unanimously
-Discussion of time in Year 1. Year 2 discrepancy in time.
Discussion in changing % in time. 14% in mechanical 33% electronic Diesel
MOTION- made by Gord Schofield to adjust outline as discussed for Level 3
Motion Seconded by Al Walker
Motion passed unanimously
-Discussion in regards to changing time in Level 2
COMERCIAL TRANSPORT
-Discussion of Year 1. No current IT % on webpage. If they are the same as what we have to look at for discussion.
-Discussion of subjects and % . Need more Hydrolics. -Year 2 leave as is for now. Year 3 & 4 – need to further review and discussion
-
Norm Dishkin – requested a laptop so he could prepare new Course Out-line.
Meeting adjourned for 8:00 tomorrow morning.
MINUTES
TUESDAY, MAY 2, 2006
Welcome and Introductions.
-DaveWharf gave the opening welcome.
-Introduction of Lindsay Langill, Industry training authority.
7.Report from ITA rep Lindsay Langill
See Attached ITA Profile:
-Lindsay presented a power-point for Commercial Transport/Heavy Duty Mechanics Articulation.
Internet -
-Discussion of what Industry training authority provides – Setting standards for industry training
-Discussion that hours for apprentices are now recorded.75/25 need to have completed 75% of the workplace hours before writing the IP as of September 1, 2006. - Employers send apprentice’s hours through website.
-Discussion of Foundation Programs that take the place of entry level programs.
-Discussion of SME Registry – for instructors/practitioners – on registry – Helps to find instructors with certain expertise as well as Range of marks posted to website as well for different institutes.
-Discussed that the Customer Services Centre is moving locations.
Discussion of Red Seal Exams
- Development of National Occupation Analysis
- Input from Jurisdictions.
- Weighing and Validation from Jurisdictions
- Development of Table of Specifications
- Item Development
- Exam review by jurisdictions
- Field Test if applicable
- Activation of new exam
Optimum time for this process? 24 Months.
-Discussion of advantages and disadvantages of writing two different exams and difference in marks.
-Discussion of current exams
Red Seal Website – – Password: 2003
-Discussion of Commercial Transport Technicians – Apprentices and Trainees. as of March 31, 2006.
-Discussionin regards to new Exam proposal.
-Discussion about IP and the need for practical exam. ACEIT – ELT is given ½ time as practical experience but not for the ACEIT program.
-Discussion of ELT Direction and Foundations programs and that by redeveloping the trade they have identified skills that need to be taught. Discussion that it is is all still being worked out and that it won’t be a replacement for ELT. Not sure what time line will be. The website and the outlines in regards to trades are very out of date. That will be where some of the money is to go. There are 10 trades that are looking at being changed. Heavy Duty comes into this class. Welding ABC and MCA is taking the lead. What we are hoping is that each level will become A B & C levels.
-Discussion on how to go about changing. Advised that letters need to come from Articulation leaders to Russ Robertson, Director of Program Standards. Program change – is a different program.
-Discussionof how to combine a course and how to go about changing course outline. Advised to bring proposal and cost to Jeff Stevens.
- Discussion on challenging IP and if he has to challenge all 4 level exams.
- Discussion in regards to mobile trainer. It will service 6 trades. It provides a service to those students who would normally have to travel for Electrical, plumbing, welding etc. This Unit is a 53 ft trailer that makes a classroom. They will be looking for different colleges to take over once it is up and running.
Break
-Attended to completion of the proposed Heavy Duty, Commercial Transport Combined Foundation Training time Allotment -
SEE ATTACHED -
-Further discussion in regards to changes in time and percentage of time spent on different courses.
-Discussion in regards to fuel omissions. Gas vs. Diesel.
-- Motion on CT Change in the weighting to CT year 1 and year 4 outline. (We need to double check ITA web page for current weighting. )
- Lloyd moved to accept the changes
- Unanimous
Discussion in regard to change of the Course outline.
- Paul made proposal – Let ITA know that we want to make changes to Commercial Transport/HD Course outlines and put together a combined CT/HDfoundation program outline along with standard exam for same.
-Joe seconded
-Unanimous.
Addition to Agenda.
8.Reports and Discussion of any changes at individual institutes.
-Terry - Okanagan is now teaching HD 1 2 & 3 . Expanding looking to expand college with new classrooms and shops within 2 – 3
- Norm - Selkirk – making changes and splitting program for automotive and HD Transport and separating the two. Looking at how they will be offering 36 week program as opposed to 40 week program. No apprenticeship training but will be looking at it in a year. Have done in the past but the industry tapered off intheir area but it is coming back. Would like more information in regards to test banking.
Doug – N.L.C.– struggling with low unemployment. The oil patch stealing students. Trying to make things go with old equipment and no funding. - Gas compression - ITA is looking at it as being a trade and offering training on that.
Glen - NIC – Status. Job placement very well getting lots of calls fromemployers. Stated that the employers need to realize the students need to finish courses.
Lorne – C.N.C. – Thriving with bug kill lumber. HD apprenticeship. All 4 sectors of it. Very popular program. Offer HD and commercial transport. They are doing HD in 20 weeks. They are not doing combining program.
Al - Selkirk– HD class is large. Have shortened the courses by 6 weeks. 3 apprentice classes running for HD. Two Level 1 ministry and higher grade students. Looking at CT apprentices.
Gery – BCIT – 3 streams of ETT have incorporated a railway conductors course. Diesel Engine program inKelowna. Joined with Volvo Mack apprenticeship program with them. They may be moving in the future.
Lloyd Babcock - Kamloops– combined programs with 36 weeks. Drop in enrolment . Don’t know why perhaps due to money factor. Had an open house for mechanical. Industries from boats to weed eaters as well as large transport trucks. Think that they need to get the younger students. - Keeping busy.
DaveWharf - HD classes full. Running 6 classes. Discussed the fact that the employers didn’t want to let the students complete course.