HISTORIC RELIGIOUS BUILDINGS ALLIANCE
STEERING GROUP
EIGHTEENTH MEETING – 5th DECEMBER 2012
Held between 4.30pm – 5.30pm at Sandys Row Synagogue, 4a Sandys Row, Spitalfields, London, E1 7HW.
Attendees
Trevor Cooper (TC), Chair of Places of Worship at Heritage Alliance
Becky Payne (BP), Places of Worship Development Officer
Nigel Robb (NR), Associate Secretary, Worship, Doctrine, Art and Architecture, Church of Scotland
Diana Evans (DE), Head of Places of Worship Advice, English Heritage
Dr Sharman Kadish, Director, Jewish Heritage UK
Matthew Seward (MS), Deputy Chief Executive, National Churches Trust
Janet Gough, Director, Cathedral and Church Buildings Division, Church of England
Charlotte Dodgeon (CD), Programme Manager for Places of Worship and Townscapes, Heritage Lottery Fund
Gerry Prosser (GP), Listed Buildings Advisory Group, United Reformed Church
Sophie Andreae, Deputy Chair, Patrimony Sub-committee, Roman Catholic Church
Matthew Saunders (MAS), Director, Friends of Friendless Churches
Apologies
Crispin Truman, Chief Executive of the Churches Conservation Trust
Kate Pugh, Director, the Heritage Alliance
Tim Bridges Conservation Adviser for Birmingham & the West Midlands,Victorian Society
Alex Glanville (AG), Head of Property Services, Church in Wales
Joanne Balmforth, Conservation Officer, the Methodist Church
Maria Yioutani-Iacovides, Conservation Officer for the Methodist Church
Mobeen Butt, Islam in British Stone
Diana Evans, (DE), Head of Places of Worship Advice, English Heritage
Agenda
1. Introductions and apologies
Trevor Cooper welcomed the members to the first of the new look Steering Group meetings.
General business
2.1 Minutes of the Steering Group meeting held on 13th June 2012.
These minutes were approved.
2.2 Matters Arising
Item 4: Invitation from Linda Monckton, Historic Environment Intelligence Analyst for Social Impacts, English Heritage to discuss with the Non-Conformist Denominations about extending the Taking Stock programme to cover chapels.
Action: TC and BP to chase whether this discussion has happened.
Item 5: The Heritage Alliance’s ‘Developing fundraising skills and capacity across the culture sector’ Programme.
Action: TC and BP to continue discussions with THA on how religious buildings might fit into this proposed programme.
Item 12.2 Church in Wales
MAS reported that the Welsh Heritage Review had been published in the Autumn and that there had been hardly any mention of places of worship. A review of the Faculty System in Wales is going to be included as part of the Heritage Bill which is due to be published in 2015. This is a follow-up to an
earlier review carried out in 2003 and will look at what has been achieved or not since then.
Item 12.3: The 2nd edition of the Methodist Heritage Handbook has now been published and can be ordered from http://www.methodistheritage.org.uk/handbook.htm
Internal matters
3. Make-up of Steering Group and proposed way of working (tabled paper)
The Steering Group discussed the tabled paper.
GP confirmed that the URC was content to remain a member of the Steering Group and that he would continue to be the representative.
This left one gap and following discussion, the Steering Group agreed that the Chair might approach the War Memorials Trust and invite them to become a member,otherwise any suitable member at the discretion of the Executive Committee
.
Action: As a first step, TC to approach the War Memorials Trust
The Steering Group agreed the following list of 17 members of the Group.
Organisation / Nominated representativeChair / Trevor Cooper
Cathedral and Church Buildings Division of the Church of England / Janet Gough
An exempt denomination with headquarters in England (other than the CofE) / None as yet (URC have not yet responded)
An exempt denomination with headquarters outside England / Nigel Robb of Church of Scotland
A group whose primary interest is non-Christian historic religious buildings / Sharman Kadish of Jewish Heritage UK
National Churches Trust / Matthew Seward
Historic Churches Liaison Group / Tim Bridges
Churches Conservation Trust / Crispin Truman
Friends of Friendless Churches / Matthew Saunders
Up to four other members (individual or organisational) selected so as to give additional representation and expertise / 1. Sophie Andreae (Patrimony Committee of the Catholic Bishops’ Conference of E & W)
2. Alex Glanville (Church in Wales)
3. Joanne Balmforth (Methodists)
4. One other suggestion needed
The CEO of the Heritage Alliance (ex officio) / Kate Pugh
A Heritage Alliance Trustee (ex officio), unless already on the Steering Group / [Crispin Truman, see above]
In attendance, the HRBA Development Director (currently Becky Payne) / Becky Payne
As observers, the Heritage Lottery Fund and English Heritage / Charlotte Dodgeon (HLF) and Diana Evans (EH)
They then discussed and approved the following tabled proposals on how the Steering Group would work in practice:
a) Papers are circulated in advance of Steering Group meetings and Steering Group members are encouraged to respond by email to the Chair if they cannot attend, or if they have major issues they wish to raise. Email responses from non-attendees are fed into the discussion by the Chair.
b) Steering Group members do not send deputies to meetings (to ensure that there is continuity and an appropriate level of seniority to make decisions and commit the representative’s organisation)
c) that in between meetings, a small Executive Committee of (say) four or five members of the Steering Group advises Becky and Trevor in any significant decisions. This group should work as far as possible by remote means (email etc)
d) that on occasion, if the Executive Committee feel it appropriate, matters can be raised between meetings for email discussion of the Steering Group (though such occasions should be kept to a minimum)
e) with the above arrangements, that the HRBA Steering Group manages its business with the minimum of meetings, attempting in the first instance to meet just twice a year, for an hour or so each time.
Action: Members to approach TC or BP if they would like to be on the Executive Committee.
4. Finance (tabled paper)
4.1 General financial position
The Steering Group noted this section of the paper and agreed it was a true picture of HRBA’s situation.
4.2 Grant applications (results)
The Steering Group noted this section of the paper.
TC updated the Group on the progress of the application to the Pilgrim Trust. Before putting it to the Trustees, we had been asked for more information on what steps HRBA would be taking to ensure that the Alliance would be financially sustainable at the end of a two year grant.
Action: TC and BP will be providing the Pilgrim Trust with further information.
It was suggested that the Dulverton Trust and the Garfield Weston Foundation might be both worth applying to. Two individuals were mentioned as having an interest in church buildings, and it might be worth an informal approach to them.
An informal discussion showed support for approaching English Heritage.
Action: TC and BP to take the suggestions forward.
4.3 Membership subscriptions
The Steering Group discussed and approved the following tabled proposal:-
With inflation running at less than 5%, it is proposed that these rates stay unchanged for subscriptions received in January 2013 and during calendar year 2013. It is also proposed that in June 2013 we reset new rates to apply from January 2014 onwards to take account of two years inflation (which will be about 10%).
4.4 Sponsorship
The Steering Group noted and discussed this section of the tabled paper.
The Group acknowledged that the problem with sponsorship is that no-one putting up money will be entirely neutral, but agreed that it was a good way of covering our costs. Some care would need to be taken with the selection of sponsors.
The Group agreed the suggestion that Luke Hughes be asked if he would be interested in sponsoring the monthly HRBA e-newsletter.
Group also agreed that HRBA should also seek sponsorship for the Members’ Day.
Action: TC to approach Luke Hughes.
5. Strategic / policy issues (tabled paper)
The Steering Group noted and discussed the tabled paper setting out possible new activities HRBA might want to consider for 2013
The Steering Group were asked to comment and prioritise the following activities as HRBA do not have the resources for more than one or perhaps two of these (unless the bulk of the actual work is done by a member organisation).
1. Help members take the best from each others’ training courses
2. Upgrade our website with a first class set of pointers to existing information sources
3. Encourage Places of Worship to write to thank MPs when they receive a VAT refund
4. Clarify and promote our members’ long-term messages to parliamentarians and the political parties, with a view to influencing pre-election thinking (e.g. about the VAT refund) (we believe such work is already being carried out by one member)
5. Bring together statutory agencies from Wales, Scotland and England to explore how they might learn from each others’ way of working
6. Create a national ‘treasure mart’, for finding homes for unwanted church artefacts
7. Set up a mentoring and buddying scheme for those planning major building works for their place of
worship
8. Work with government to improve the way it works across departmental boundaries in dealing with
historic religious buildings
The Group agreed that (3), (4), (6) and (7) were good suggestions.
The following comments were made:-
Re (4): agreed that it was important that the message re: VAT was continually made to MPs and that HRBA had an important role in co-ordinating response on future developments.
Re (6): agreed that this was a good idea, but some nervousness was expressed that it could be seen as encouraging places of worship to sell off their treasures. It was also asked whether HRBA was the organization that should manage such a website.
Re (7): CD said that the HLF were trying to develop a mentoring system for their grantees. TC reminded the group that the Training Day on the Managing Major Building Projects in Places of Worship being organized by HRBA and Purcell UK was one way of providing support and that if the NW pilot was a success, then we were planning to run others in other parts of the country.
Re (8): was agreed to be a definite need, but was difficult when Departments and Staff kept changing.
Other suggestions were as follows:
HRBA could think about how to engage with local authorities and specifically around educating them as to how they fit into the ecclesiastical exemption.
JG suggested that HRBA could help with promoting the guidance being produced by the Churches Conservation Trust on opening places of worship.
Action: TC and BP to explore with the Executive Committee which of the above suggestions would be the most productive to pursue.
6. Development of ongoing HRBA activities (tabled paper)
6.1 Tangible aims for 2013
The Steering Group noted and discussed the tabled paper and approved the aims for 2013 which are as follows:
Aim for 2012 / Status at end of 2012 / Aim for 20131 / Introduce a new name for the group, and improve our online presence / Achieved / -
2 / Ensure the e-newsletter reaches a much wider audience than at present (target quadruple to 300 recipients) / Achieved / Target of 500 recipients (on basis it will probably get harder from now on)
3 / Work with the Heritage Alliance secretariat in considering whether there is a POW angle on philanthropy and/or the HLF Catalyst Fund / Achieved / -
4 / Ensure that the various arms of government are aware of the group’s existence, and know when it is appropriate to speak to us / Partly achieved
We used the VAT embroglio to raise our profile within DCMS and HMT. We have not established contact with other arms of government. / Same aim as 2012, with specific aims of reaching out to Department of Communities and Local Government, and rebuilding contacts within DCMS given the changes of personnel
5 / Develop a small and revolving portfolio of issues owned by subsets of members, who are committed to seeing them taken forward, using HRBAlliance as a forum and the HRBAlliance secretariat as an encourager. / Achieved where relevant (nonconformist denominations to talk to EH regarding a possible ‘Taking Stock’ review). / Same aim as 2012, but with awareness that this can only happen as appropriate issues arise.
6 / Take steps to make the POWAlliance secretariat more financially sustainable / Achieved
Aim was carefully worded in terms of ‘taking steps’ not in terms of ‘achieving financial sustainability’ / Achieve financial stability for the HRBA secretariat, including obtaining sponsorship for the e-newsletter and the Annual Open Day
7 / Improve the governance of the group / Achieved / Set up an efficient and effective Executive committee
n/a / - / - / Obtain at least 60 attendees for the Annual Open Day
n/a / - / - / Run a successful pilot training day
6.2 HRB Members’ Day September 2013
The Steering Group noted the report back on the Members’ Day held on 12th September 2012.
They agreed the following proposals:-
· A large number of attendees paid a discounted rate, and so the level of discount may at some stage need attention.
· The 2013 Event will be positioned as an Open Day rather than a members’ day.
· We will aim for sixty attendees (there were approximately forty this year)
· We will aim to obtain sponsorship of the day.
· Initial organizing of the day will start in Spring or early Summer. Membership will be asked for suggestions for speakers.
· The Executive Committee will finalise the shape of the day.
6.3 HRBA Training Days in partnership with Purcell
TC and BP reported that the programme and speakers had now been agreed and that the flyer and programme had been circulated to all members and those on the HRBA mailing list.
Action: everyone asked to circulate around their networks and to anyone who they thought would be interested.
7. To note: Dates for future Steering Group meetings for 2013
· Wednesday 5th June 2013 [NOT 12 June as previously mentioned]
· Wednesday 4th December 2013 (note the Heritage Alliance Members Day is taking place on Thursday 5th December 2013. Holding our meeting the day before will minimize travel for those who want to attend both).
In addition, there will be General Members meetings on the above dates and also on Wednesday 6 March (usually 2.00 – 4.30), and there will be an all day Annual Open Day on Wednesday 11 September.
BP and TC
19th December 2012
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